Imago Dei
811 Burnside Street
Portland
Oregon
97214
Senior Pastor:
Rick McKinley
Church Service= 2 Church Serving = 5
The first word when you see Imago Dei's Google text is "postmodern." What does that mean? If we're living in the modern age, is postmodern next week? 10 years from now? The whole concept is a tad confusing. And let's not start on "deconstruction."
And, yes, they meet in a highschool. At least when we were there that was the case. So you'd figure that at some point during the service the issue about the new meeting place would come up... but it never did.
Instead they showed a video about a "Sacred Space" they created. They transformed a beaten public park--used for little more than drug deals ands graffiti practice--into a safe haven for families.
The congregation was varied: young families, couples, older families, white, black, people who took the bus there, people who drove BMWs there, people who walked there.
There was no clearly identifying characteristic of the people, but together, they seemed a forces for good, telling stories about what they've done and will do. And all in the name of Jesus.
They came together because they have a shared understanding about what it means to follow Jesus. And they went out--and go out--into the community to make it better. Pretty simple, really, And pretty effective.
For, frankly, a backward-named church--Imago Dei? Come on! That's Latin: no body speaks Latin anymore!--they were incredibly forward with their thinking and with their actions.
As you can tell by the simple ratings, I was not all that impressed by their friendliness, their singing, or even the preaching part of it (the actual sermonizing), but I was duly impressed by the mission of the church: to make the world a better place.
And whether you're making the world a better place because you believe that's what God wants, or whether you're doing so for the sake of your family, friends, self, and/or everyone else in the world, you are--in my opinion--doing the right thing.
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Wow, what a mixed review!
My husband and I attended this church for about 3, maybe 4 months and I really wanted to like it. Now there were several good things about it. I liked how they helped with the community--that was awesome. I liked the different preachers; however, they had so many guest speakers that I didn't know what Pastor Rick looked like 'til Easter Sunday. I really liked the music because it was different, for the most part. They sometimes played a few songs that any other church would play, but not that often. I loved how art was incorporated with the worship. The thing that really got to me and my husband, though, was how unfriendly they were. I mean, seriously, no one said, hi. No one. Not for the 3-4 months we were there. I realize they meet in a big school (though when we started going, they met in a small old church building), but the fact remains that no one came up to us. And it is becoming a larger church so it's hard to find the new people, but it was hard to continue with that excuse after 3-4 months of regular attending.
"The thing that really got to me and my husband, though, was how unfriendly they were"
I can't tell you how many times Casper and I said the same thing. It is simply phenomenal that churches put signs up saying "Everybody Welcome" and then when you get inside it's like "Nobody Home"
Hi Jim,
We have talked about this problem in the past. It runs rampant in our evagelical and missional churches. Even more sad is trying to get people to see the problem. Everyone is concern about missions in Africa (which is good), but when the mission field walks in the church door-----nothing happens.
Anybody, please comment.
take care,
john
This is a sad, but true situation. I have followed another web site's "mystery worshiper" reports for many years and the overwhelming conclusion is the same. Churches are unfriendly. So what can be done when church regulars either can't see the problem, deny it or don't care? About ten years ago I started a long personal retraining to force my church conversations to involve those I didn't know. I have focused on those with their heads down, those that were headed for the exit without any personal contact. Having said that, I still have a tendency to engage those that I really enjoy. So, what is wrong with us regulars? What should be done?
Hey Dave,
Could you help my wife and I in this area?
sobaka1@yahoo.com
Jim wrote: I can't tell you how many times Casper and I said the same thing. It is simply phenomenal that churches put signs up saying "Everybody Welcome" and then when you get inside it's like "Nobody Home"
----------------------
Right; or when you get inside it feels like there's some fine print that Everyone Is Welcome..........
......except you
Because people are talking to their friends. Not you.
Dave, I think it would be good if church people visited with each other at other times and committed to looking out for and welcoming new people on Sunday. Or at least people they don't know, if it's a big enough church that you can't tell who is new.
I think we need to turn things around from "Who do I want to talk to?" to "Who needs me to talk to them?"
I feel that Jesus was always on the lookout for the person who needed him to talk to them. Otherwise Zaccheus would still be up that tree...
Helen wrote: I think we need to turn things around from "Who do I want to talk to?" to "Who needs me to talk to them?"
Perhaps a good question to apply here is: If both are good why must we choose between them? Regulars practicing community at a church meeting is not a bad thing. But it MUST include everyone and that is most often not the case. That makes Helen's question "Who needs me to talk to them?" an important practice.
Dave Woolsey
It's ironic that Casper mentions on the video on the home page that the goal of a church should be building a community. I think that's true, BUT, what happens is that some churches start out building a community and once it gets nice and tight and cozy, the door is shut, because there is already a tight knit community, and the people in it don't see a need to expand that community. The church ought to do what Helen is suggesting- forget the actual "community" and just be friendly, warm and inviting. A church should never get so comfortable with the community they have that they close the door to others. Does that make sense?
From some I've seen, you were lucky that the congregation was only indifferent. I was in one church not too long ago where the Board told the Pastor in no uncertain terms that they didn't want any new people, thank you...
Dave, John and Helen
Nice conversation.
The only thing I know is that making this change has to be approached as a simple practice not an idea.
We need to provide Christians simple ways of making this change.
For me it would start with finding 5 people who would agree to say hello to one new person each week.
Thats all I would ask. In fact I would start even further back than that. I would start the noticers club. I would ask people to notice new people and then email me about that they noticed.
If we did this together then it would be more fun.
It is simple doable practices that make this kind of chnage possible - nothing else- no long sermons (they've heard those) no guilt trips (tried and found wanting) and no organized efforts (where ARE the ushers?) Just regular people working up to saying hi to new people who have voluntarily entered their space
So simple!
We can do this.
JOIN THE NOTICE CLUB.
THANK YOU
JOHN GALLEGOS
A pastor's adult son once told me that he only wants to go worship, hear the Word, and go home. Many do not want to be noticed or get involved, possibly from fear of failure or bad past experiences. The topic of "friendliness" is a touchy situation. Approaching "new people" is tough because sometimes the response is "I've been attending for several years". Those who respond with that can't be offended because usually they aren't involved so they are still to be considered "new". I was one who would not be offended because I deserved to be considered new. Decades ago I used to be one approaching new people and made mistakes with my opening comments, so I developed a very generic "hello, nice to see you" greeting. Maybe the answer is to have small groups gather during the sermon where people can say their name and respond to the discussion topic the pastor is posing relative to the sermon and each week you must get in a small group with others you haven't met yet. Drawback: takes away from the sermon time. Positive: it personalizes the sermon lesson and you get to know people with more than just a hello; it could be an evangelistic and prayer time for the service close and would be an excellent way to have more personal and private outreach opportunities.
Here is my pick up line for people I don't know at church.
ARE YOU NEW TO ME OR OUR YOU NEW TO OUR CHURCH?
My friend Angie Fadel once said, "Church can be a lonely place." We all know how right she is.
I wonder how much of our American culture plays into that. We are not known as the most hospitable culture around. We are friendly...to a point...but not particularly welcoming.
Love the idea of the Noticers Club, but it sucks that we are even having this conversation. I wonder if the church in Asian nations has similar hurdles to connecting to people.
And finally, I wonder if the size of the community makes any difference. Large churches are certainly harder to connect on a personal level, but are visitors like ghosts even in smaller faith communities?
I had the same feeling as Casper had. The obvious focus on getting out and getting their hands dirty was awesome, very attractive. But the actual church gathering itself had an awkward feel because no one came and spoke to us, either. In fact, WE had to seek people out in order to talk to someone, and when we did, we kind of got the feel like there was something more important that person (in this case, the pastor Rick McKinley) had to be doing. It wasn't just relegated to him, however. Several people we spoke to gave us that vibe. The worship itself on this particular occasion was great- it was bare bones, stripped down, a guy with a guitar and someone on keys. It wasn't showy, but was sincere and heartfelt.
I wonder what those with long-time experience in house churches might have to say about the question of newcomers feeling overlooked. My guess is that this would be less likely to happen in a micro-congregation.
Rob, I was just writing about this the other day in a reply on the Mars Hill conversation.
Someone on their pointed out that in a large church people don't know who the newcomers are. While this is true it seems to me that if church members habitually spoke to people they didn't know then newcomers would most likely be spoken to also.
What I've observed often is that many church members only speak to their particular friends. Established members/ministry leaders often talk to each other and not even other members let alone newcomers.
I find this disappointing behavior from Christians because it seems to me that according to the gospels, Jesus reached out to strangers and outsiders. He was anything but 'clique-y'.
"Someone on their pointed out that in a large church people don't know who the newcomers are"
Can you imagine them using this excuse at Wal Mart?
Why not stop everything for 5 minutes (yes cut into the preaching time) and "relgiously" direct people to talk with someone they dont know. If you really really dont want to be part of this you may "stay in your seat" and no one will bother you (except to notice who is staying in their seats) or you can go to another church that will never require you to do anything (doable that is - only the periodic dramatic request for money or soup kitchen duty)