Beth and Traci: Wherein Beth editorializes and pines for her churchies
I miss my Wednesday morning group of women. Last year another woman and I facilitated a group, and most of the same women reconvened this year, plus or minus one or two, while I took the year off. You know what I’ve discovered?
I. Miss. Those. Women!
I miss the studies; I miss the stellar teaching and wisdom freely offered by Dana Ramsey, Lisa Telford, Julie Meiners and the rest; I miss the comfort and courage that comes from knowing eight other women are holding me up in confidence and prayer throughout the week and sharing deep and not so deep concerns for one another.
The discipline of committing to that time together is glue that mysteriously and powerfully holds me together. Without it I can tend to fragment and lose perspective. I mean. Without it, I do alright. I get by. My Sunday Grace group is great, but there’s just nothing like the magic the Holy Spirit seems to breathe in a special way through those women.
Traci and I can barely glimpse that magic, let alone experience it on our drop-ins. We get a feel for the places, sure, but as the woman who took over my leading position predicted, it just wouldn’t give us a clear enough picture of what it’s like. (Other Beth: You were right!) Traci and I considered embedding in just one, and who knows - maybe we’ll do that sometime. And don’t get me wrong - we’ve made some rich observations through our current format of research and discovered enough to write entertaining (and hopefully insightful and useful) reviews a la “Jim and Casper” of an atheist’s perspective of women’s ministries.
But in the five-month absence of the blessing of meeting with my women, I’m struck by how much we’re missing.
In fact. I’m neck deep in two of the most painful, shitty weeks of my life since my father committed suicide in 1995. You know what’s not getting me through? My beliefs. Scripture? Nope. Sure, I’m buoyed momentarily when I let the truths of Psalm 37 sink in.
What is helping? COMMUNITY. The thing that is getting me through is the shoulder to shoulder feeling I felt yesterday when my husband and I shared our trials with the Arringtons, Melangtons, Girberts, and Hansen with whom we meet just an hour and a half a week to discuss the Sunday sermon and pray for one another.
That AND the comfort of the faithful friendship I have with a crispy-coated, sweet gooey-centered atheist neighbor friend of mine. My Traci.
Comment by: Helen
1 03/10/08 3:29 PM | Comment Link |Beth, I’m sorry you’ve had such a bad couple of weeks.
I’ve found that too.
I listen to a Christian counseling call-in show sometimes and I know exactly what they’re going to say to callers whose method of dealing with whatever-it-is is “I’m reading my Bible and praying”. They always say “You need other people“.
Hang in there…I hope things look up soon.
Comment by: Beth Bates
2 03/10/08 3:37 PM | Comment Link |Thanks, Helen.
And not to say that church has the corner on community, but it’s certainly a strength of the church my husband and I attend. And it’s a community that lets me walk in grace and doesn’t hold against me sins of the PAST.
Comment by: Justin McKean
3 03/10/08 4:00 PM | Comment Link |There is nothing like the marvelous, wonder working power of community. Heads up, kiddo. All will be well.
Comment by: Laura
4 03/10/08 4:47 PM | Comment Link |I am feelin ya sista. I get the bond you are missing from the women folk last year and I especially get the community that is holding your entire family in prayer right this very moment as you guys struggle through this stuff. After my run this morning I thought of you guys and I thought of how Steve Z. spoke about the stuggles we face in life and how so very often those stuggles make us dependent upon him and change our life and perspective so drastically. God is doing great things Beth–sure it seems shitty in this moment, but he is a sovereign Lord who loves you EVEN MORE than WE DO!
Comment by: karen
5 03/10/08 5:46 PM | Comment Link |Beth, I am so sorry to hear you are going through a tough time. I hope things get better soon.
Something profound that has helped me is realizing that we can’t control what happens to us, or around us, but we can make choices about how we react to the chaos. And sometimes that’s what makes all the difference.
I’ve been very fortunate to find a group of women friends in my life who act as the kind of community you describe (minus the praying part). It really is wonderful to have people you can be honest with and who support you no matter what.
Hang in there.
Comment by: Traci
6 03/10/08 6:11 PM | Comment Link |Bep!
Was your Wednesday group anything like the ones we’ve visited?
I find it hard to imagine people getting the same kind of spiritual buoy you mention from the call-and-response group, for instance.
Then again, as I think we’ve established here, I’m not much of a group-connector in the first place.
Comment by: Beth Bates
7 03/10/08 8:03 PM | Comment Link |As a matter of fact, nope. Not at all like any of the ones we’ve visited. Most like the Tab ladies, but maybe even better than that in some ways. Different, though.
No, the call-and-response group would leave me cold too, I think.
Angela took me out for drinks tonight. FORCED me to go out. I think that’s a spiritual discipline, isn’t it? Pursuing someone and FORCING them out for margaritas? It should be, even if Dallas Willard hasn’t identified it as such.
Oh. And Claudia’s virtual casserole hit the spot. *BURP* Thanks, Claudia!
Comment by: Beth Bates
8 03/10/08 8:23 PM | Comment Link |P.S. Thank you, Laura, Justin and Karen. I really didn’t intend for my post to fish for sympathy, but I appreciate the support more than you know. Blessings to you.
Comment by: Helen
9 03/11/08 5:57 AM | Comment Link |Beth wrote:
I think it’s hard to compare a group you’re with week after week with one you visit once.
It generally takes time to develop friendship and trust and open up to each other.
At BSF the leader used to acknowledge this. She’d said “at the beginning of the year you’re going to think “there’s NO WAY this group will be as good as last year’s” - but as the year goes by you’ll feel differently.”
In reality some groups bonded better than others but the leader was right that it always made a difference as we got to know each other.
Comment by: pamhogeweide
10 03/11/08 9:18 AM | Comment Link |hey beth
well i think you’re hitting on what may have been one of the central criticisms of jim and casper’s book: how can you really know a group or community from just a single drive-by visit? This is like an American tourist trying to write about Paris after a one-day visit.
Having said that, I know that Jim and Casper weren’t actually trying to analyze evangelical culture. They were going after what the Sunday morning gig looks like through the eyes of an outsider.
Whether you and Traci embed in a women’s group can probably be decided as you guys figure out your writing goal.
But yeah, visiting and belonging are two different things and two very different kinds of experiences.
(here…i’m sliding you a vodka cranberry down the virtual bar of church rater. not many people know that church rater has a hidden bar. keep it on the low-down…in other words, don’t tell jim…)
Comment by: Beth Bates
11 03/11/08 1:48 PM | Comment Link |(Thanks, Pam. Just last night I was trying to recall the ingredients in that perfectly tart beverage I had at the Distillery at Edgefield. . . And I’m thinking Jim might belly right on up to the church rater bar right along with us.)
Comment by: Beth L
12 03/12/08 11:22 AM | Comment Link |Hi Beth, I just came from my Weds morning women’s group and I must say that sometimes God works in AMAZING ways there. When groups click there is an intimacy that I’ve not found other places. Good teaching, personal sharing and digging deep into real questions of life is powerful stuff. I don’t know about you but I NEED a group to help keep me on track, focused in the right direction….communicating with God. Trusting him instead of myself. Maybe that’s part of what you are feeling. Maybe you’re feeling that loss of focus and loss of weekly encouragement to look up instead of down. I wish you were in a group right now with Traci for her to see how real & relevant God is in our lives. I think the real test would be for Traci to join a small group bible study and earnestly do it for 3 years and see if she could come out of it unaffected. Just a thought. I want you to know you are welcome to come back anytime!! I miss you!
Comment by: Helen
13 03/12/08 12:20 PM | Comment Link |Thanks for your comment, Beth L. I’m glad you find your Wednesday group so helpful.
Wow, 3 years…that’s a long time for an atheist to attend a Bible study!
Comment by: Traci
14 03/12/08 12:26 PM | Comment Link |I’m sure I would be affected, Beth L, although not in the way you’re imagining.
I appreciate the suggestion and certainly am glad you’ve found a group that is so meaningful to you, but I’m not willing to commit that much time to something I have serious ideological issues with.
Comment by: Beth Bates
15 03/12/08 1:00 PM | Comment Link |Okay. Three years is a bit longer than we had in mind. :)
Thanks, Beth, for visiting and making me feel welcome to come back anytime. I miss you too.
I sat in on the Mary Heart in a Martha World this morning, and Lisa Telford’s words pierced my heart. I’m going to go out on a limb here. . . It’s moments like that when they just “happened” to be talking about forgiving injustices in our lives and avoiding bitterness when another person has wronged us that makes me think, “Okay THIS is why I believe in God.” So many uncanny “coincidences” in life.
Comment by: Traci
16 03/13/08 5:10 AM | Comment Link |Quelle coincidence! Forgiveness being such a rarely applicable subject . . .
Hell, you’re going to need it again after you read this skeptic’s message.
Comment by: Beth Bates
17 03/13/08 5:16 AM | Comment Link |Oh it went deeper than “forgiveness” as a general subject. But there isn’t room here to go into that. And I anticipated this reaction, but you have to trust that I’m a deep enough thinker to not say “Shooee they’s talkin’ about people likin’ pizza! I like pizza too!”
Comment by: Beth Bates
18 03/13/08 5:29 AM | Comment Link |Deeper. And way more specific. And timed. Since you aren’t a veteran of these things, you you’re not aware of the innumerable other topics they cover in the course of a year or more without them ever touching on the depth, specificity and take on forgiveness that Telford taught yesterday.
Comment by: Traci
19 03/13/08 5:48 AM | Comment Link |No, no I’m not a veteran, but I’d imagine these things are designed to touch on topics that the attendees would find meaningful. Otherwise, why bother?
Excellent that you lucked into (God brought you to) one that worked for you.
Comment by: Beth Bates
20 03/13/08 5:53 AM | Comment Link |Traci. Traci. Traci.
I’m not trying to convince YOU, my dear. But like so many believers with a brain, I’m in constant tension and doubt. So it’s moments like yesterday when I haven’t been to a thing in months and out of all the millions(?) or hundreds of thousands of verses in the Bible, of all the thousands quotes that have been written about doing life well, they’re the verses and quotes that PIERCE me - not just make me feel something - keep me believing and going.
But thanks for the sarcasm. It was adorable.
Comment by: Helen
21 03/13/08 6:22 AM | Comment Link |This is fun to watch :-)
This illustrates why (in my opinion) three years of Bible study would probably be torture for Traci. Because there would be lots of times where people Traci knows a lot less well than Beth would share stories like this of how God came through for them with some event or words ‘just at the right time’. And Traci wouldn’t feel free to be honest and say “It sure sounds like a coincidence to me” because that would be unsupportive.
Or maybe Traci WOULD say it and she’d have a fine three years but Beth L and the rest of the group would be counting the weeks until her three years were up and they could share about what God was doing in their lives without having someone say “Doesn’t sound like God to me!”
Comment by: Missy Welsch
22 03/13/08 7:04 AM | Comment Link |“That AND the comfort of the faithful friendship I have with a crispy-coated, sweet gooey-centered atheist neighbor friend of mine. My Traci.” Right now, I think Beth needs THIS type of support. Beth B. hasn’t suggested that Traci or anyone needs to give three years to anything in order to “get it”. I think it was another Beth who suggested something like that. Rather, Beth B. was expressing a personal experience, one which provided the safe place in which she could hurt and struggle…without fear of condemnation. It also provided the quiet confidence that she didn’t walk alone. What I’m saying is, Beth has been very, very sensitive to the dignity of Traci’s path. She affirms and protects her. It is important that Beth’s path is also honored and respected. You know?? It’s like being friends with someone who is, say, green, and being careful to avoid any reference to vegetables. Why? Tender, authentic respect. That’s the response called for here in return.
Comment by: Traci
23 03/13/08 7:12 AM | Comment Link |People, people.
Nobody was condemning anything (nor was I suggesting that dear Beth B wanted me do to three years’ penance in bible study).
If I can’t tease my friend, then something’s wrong. There was no malice in my message, and I’m shocked that it’s blown up like this.
My sincere apologies for any hurt I’ve caused.
Comment by: Helen
24 03/13/08 9:12 AM | Comment Link |Missy, right - it was another Beth who suggested the three years.
Traci, I knew you were teasing Beth and I was enjoying seeing a relationship between an atheist and a Christian in which that’s possible.
At the same time I was thinking - this is rare (I WISH it wasn’t though) and that’s why it would be hard to find a group which would work well both for you and the Christians in it.
But I could be wrong.
Comment by: Beth
25 03/13/08 11:20 AM | Comment Link |Sorry for the ultra sensitivity. It didn’t feel teasy.
I think Traci knows I can take teasing, at least I have in the past. Not that I’m ALWAYS the best sport at taking it, as my husband can attest. I’m just in a bad spot.
I’m not usually as open about my God experiences on here, and it took being in an especially tender place to de-compartmentalize. So that, combined with feel particularly sensitive this week set it up for me not to get the humor.
I’ll be in my hole over here. I should probably stay in it till I can find my armor.
Comment by: Missy Welsch
26 03/14/08 6:38 AM | Comment Link |And, I’m sorry for being the protective older sister.
Comment by: Beth
27 03/14/08 6:47 AM | Comment Link |Missy. THANK you for being my champion. Don’t ever be sorry for being the wonderful sister you are.
Comment by: Missy Welsch
28 03/14/08 7:04 AM | Comment Link |Oh, you.