Beth and Traci: David, Bathsheba, and Kay Arthur’s Sweet Thigh
“It writes itself, yesterday’s event,” Traci said of the College Park Church Precepts inductive Bible study last week. Some of Traci’s ideas for post titles follow.
Beth and Traci Had Better Get Right with God
Beth and Traci and Kay Arthur’s Sweet Thigh
Beth and Traci and God’s Rod (Real mature, Traci.) The study leader said it! — Traci Yeah, but not the way you whispered it in my ear! –Beth
Beth and Traci: Only So Good
Beth and Traci Eat, Drink, and Lie
Beth and Traci: Don’t be a Saul
Beth and Traci and 90% Hussies
Clearly, we struck gold at last Wednesday morning’s meeting. I’m stumped by which vein to mine first. It’s just too rich to narrow down. Traci hit it on the head when she said, “You know this will yield, like, twelve posts, right?”
Running a few minutes late, we wandered the empty church for five minutes (staff were all cloistered in a meeting) before the visiting pastoral candidate’s wife found and led us to a lovely woman named Peony who showed us to the basement classroom. Peony made it her mission to make us feel welcome, asking our names and whether we were new and showing interest in how we found the church. With the meeting already in progress she guided us to a table with two empty seats on the end. “They’re new,” she whispered to the older lady in the chair next to us. The women nodded at one another, then at us, exchanging knowing smiles with eyebrows raised in excitement. (Fresh meat!)
Okay. So there’s the set up. What followed felt like a barrage of fulfilled stereotypes Traci expected and vibrations of the conservative tradition I fled twenty years ago. It was like stepping back in time, sitting there in a room full of earnest women eagerly filling in blanks the teacher posed in Ben Stein-like form. Only these students were alert. And the teacher spoke with a lilt, effortlessly, note-free, reviewing weeks of material from their study in I and II Samuel.
Teacher: What was Saul like?
Ladies: Tall dark and handsome!
Teacher: Man judges the outside. God looks at. What?
Ladies: The heart!
Teacher: (nodding) That’s right. God looks at the heart. Saul and the Evil Spirit. What was the antidote?
Ladies: David’s harp!
Teacher And what was the giant’s name?
Ladies: Goliath!
And so on.
Regardless of the time travel sensation, I heard some things I had either forgotten or never learned before. The teacher went on with the review and mentioned something about a recurring “triplicate . . . Eat, Sleep, Lie.” Traci drifted off during the good Messianic foreshadowing Claudia promised. (David sinned. He deserved death. A son, his son, would die in his place.) Solomon was his fresh start. Jedediah - JEDEDIAH, TRACI! Jedediah means “loved by the Lord.” Who knew? And David put on lotions?
Controversy bubbled up when a lady asked whether David “had” the Holy Spirit to help him not to sin the way we “have the Holy Spirit - the Holy Spirit came and went in David’s time” - a question that appeared to shake up the teacher a bit. She deftly deflected the tangent, though, shutting down the topic with, “There’s not enough in the text to speak to doctrine.” End of discussion.
The friendly older lady to my left was extremely helpful, leaning over repeatedly to whisper the chapter and verse we were on so I wouldn’t feel lost. Feeling a rapport with her I decided to let her in on our mission. “My friend’s an atheist,” I whispered. Her facial response to that bomb progressed like this: shock, surprise, concern, conspiracy. I’ll let Traci share their conversation that followed.
I will say the morning wasn’t completely off-putting. Not at all. (Not to me, at least.) Scripture swooned me. During the post-teaching feedback, a spirit of quiet reverence settled on the room as women offered their thoughts and feelings. At one point, as Peony spoke of Psalms and God’s presence in her smooth Asian accent, I found my eyes closed in ecstatic thanksgiving to Him.
Following the teaching, discussion, and goodie break (offering sweet treats, teas, decent coffee and a nice selection of flavored creamers), most women stayed for the optional viewing of Kay Arthur’s accompanying lecture video. To me, the pinnacle of our morning with David and Bathsheba was Arthur’s stern admonishment to the women in her mixed video audience to dress modestly. “Why was Bathsheba bathing on her roof? We don’t know. Scripture doesn’t tell us. But ladies. Men. Are. Visual. They’re aroused by sight,” she warned. As she declared something about 90% of women today dressing immodestly, she walked away from her white board to stage right, exposing a tall drink of leg. A 25-inch gaping slit rose up her ankle-length skirt a full five inches above her knee, taunting the men in her video audience with “Kay Arthur’s Sweet Thigh.”
Comment by: Helen
1 02/12/08 8:31 PM | Comment Link |Beth I love all the descriptive detail in here.
I can’t believe Kay would say that about modesty and wear a skirt with a huge slit in it! Also, I find the implications of what she said disturbing, as if it’s all the fault of women for being temptresses if men stray.
Where did the men come from who were watching Kay Arthur? Were they in the study you were in? (Let’s hope they weren’t just there because of Kay’s split skirt)
Comment by: benjamin ady
2 02/12/08 9:43 PM | Comment Link |I wanna know more about the “eat drink lie” thing. Is that “lie” as in “be dishonest”, or “lie” as in “have sex with”?
If the latter sounds, it sounds like a good recipe for a date: eat drink lie (movie optional) (with one’s spouse, of *course*!) =)
and “God’s Rod”?
the bible study doesn’t sound very interactive. sounds like the bible studies at the church I grew up in, actually.
Comment by: kathyescobar
3 02/12/08 9:54 PM | Comment Link |okay you two, that was the funniest one yet! i can picture every small detail (yes, i have been there, done that). thanks for the laughs. it’s a little sad to me, though. the weird “right behavior” things that get focused in on in these kinds of studies & somehow the whole idea of becoming a more decent loving caring honest human being gets left out.
Comment by: Justin McKean
4 02/12/08 10:09 PM | Comment Link |Ok, so, I haven’t seen Kay. Is she cute?
David needed that lotion. He also danced naked in the street on occasion. He needed that smooth, supple skin.
You know this is going to be a sitcom on HBO once you write the book, right?
Comment by: Helen
5 02/13/08 5:31 AM | Comment Link |Benjamin wrote:
Right…it’s hard to see how it can be if the leader shuts down questions.
Kathy, yes, I know that Christians in these sorts of groups strongly value and encourage ‘right behavior’ because it’s supposed to be honoring to God, yet, it so easily ends up being a burden which gets in the way of ‘love God and love others’. Instead of a pathway to it.
It seems like Christian women are more prone to obsessing over this stuff than Christian men. Or maybe I just don’t know what Christian men obsess over, since I haven’t been to a Christian men’s meeting.
Justin, there’s a photo of Kay on here (face only, who knows if she was wearing her split skirt)
Comment by: Beth Bates
6 02/13/08 7:05 AM | Comment Link |Justin? Have your agent call us. Wink.
Comment by: Traci
7 02/13/08 7:52 AM | Comment Link |KATHY: All glory be to Beth, who hath this piece penned.
Not that I wouldn’t like to take credit, but MORAL OBLIGATION prohibits it.
Comment by: Randy
8 02/13/08 9:34 AM | Comment Link |Helen,
I think you know exactly what christian men obsess over (in case you need a hint: it’s the same thing men in general obsess over).
Kay Arthur is right (and pretty hot in that picture, imo)…men are very visual. I wasn’t even there and I still have a mental picture of her in a split skirt that I can’t seem to erase.
And yes, Helen…clearly the Bible implies it was Bathsheeba’s fault for David’s sin in this story. Surely you wouldn’t argue with the clear facts presented by Kay? This view would be consistent with Adam’s argument (to God) that his own sin was the fault of “the woman YOU gave me”. It all went downhill once Eve got involved. End of discussion…again.
Please don’t kill me.
Comment by: Missy Welsch
9 02/13/08 9:52 AM | Comment Link |I have to jump in here. I think I might have some juicy info on that ho-bag, Kay Arthur. Well,I was a Precept leader about a hundred years ago. I went to her “Ranch” where wannabe Precepts leaders go to GET DOWN with Kay Arthur. She was a stunner in those days (around 1987) and her big schtick was how baaaaaaaaad she had been at one time. Like she killed a husband or something, I don’t recall the details. And she was a S-L-U-T, like the Todd Rundgren song, Brett. She was very, very, very sorry and openly kicking herself for what a bad wife she had been, mean, nasty and flirting with other guys, blah, blah, blah…THEN she ended up with Mr. Arthur. (now, if you see a picture of HIM, well, she IS being punished, no question) So, that’s the story behind her harping on the lusty looking woman thing (which, ironically, she still was, but do we have to hide our HOTNESS just because we love God??? I think not.)So, Kay Arthur is an odd bird, if you ask me, and an overreactor on pretty much everything. Does she still refer to her audience as “Beloved” when she teaches? Yikes.
Comment by: Beth Bates
10 02/13/08 10:05 AM | Comment Link |Hey, Miss. Welcome back to the U.S. of A. She did use one term of endearment, something like “dear one,” but not “beloved.” I cain’t rightly recall.
Comment by: karen
11 02/13/08 4:13 PM | Comment Link |Gee, another post that brings back old memories! I must have been in a Precepts study myself at some point. I definitely remember the “fill-in-the-blank” learning style, where the teacher gives you the correct answers to questions in your workbook, and you just write down verbatim what they say.
I’d love to hear what Eliza thinks of that teaching style!! ;-)
Helen, you’ll probably relate to how I felt that BSF was so much more intellectually fulfilling in terms of the learning styles. Not that there were no “right” answers (there were), but at least that people were allowed to study the information and put forth their own thoughts on it rather than just regurgitating the leader’s thoughts.
Missy (you are hilarious by the way), I was raised with Christian leaders who would seemingly compete for which one had “out-sinned” all the others back in their bad old days. I guess I should have known something was up with me when I realized that the stories of their wicked, wicked pasts were more fun to listen to than the stories of their redemptions. I think they were all men, though. It would have been really interesting to hear about wicked women!
Comment by: Helen
12 02/13/08 5:09 PM | Comment Link |Karen wrote:
Absolutely - also the BSF ban on commentaries while answering questions meant members weren’t allowed to regurgitate commentators’ thoughts. I realized what a good thing this was when I went to CBS (a spin off of BSF) and commentaries were allowed. Hearing people read copied out bits of commentaries is much more boring than their own thoughts.
Comment by: Helen
13 02/13/08 5:21 PM | Comment Link |Randy wrote:
See…this is how it really is - men are at the mercy of women.
Randy, don’t worry, I’ll leave it to your capable wife to ‘correct’ your theology.
(Except to ask one question: if Adam said “the woman YOU gave me”, emphasizing YOU, doesn’t that mean he was blaming God more than Eve?)
Comment by: Lisa
14 02/13/08 5:26 PM | Comment Link |This is the post I was waiting for. You really delivered.
Missy, I wanna hang with you again. Please come back to Indy to play soon.
Comment by: Missy Welsch
15 02/13/08 6:03 PM | Comment Link |Lisa, anytime, anytime! I actually had a dream about you just a few weeks ago in which you came within one question of winning the jackpot on “Millionaire” and then introduced Beth and me to Meredith. Somehow, in my dreams, she and Kelly Ripa want to be my friends. And sweet Karen, thank you…the really funny one in our family is Beth, no doubt. She sets me free.
I gave up bragging on Beth for Lent so, I’ll have to wait until after Easter to go on, and on, and on.
Comment by: karen
16 02/13/08 6:27 PM | Comment Link |Well, of course it goes without saying that both Beth and Traci are great comedians. And I’m still laughing about “Mr. Arthur” … ;-)
Comment by: Randy
17 02/13/08 7:41 PM | Comment Link |Helen,
Totally. And we’ve not come all that far since then, frankly. Except we’ve become more spiritual when we blame or accuse God (like, “God told me to…”, or “I prayed about it, so…” or my favorite, “God wants me to be happy, so…”).
Comment by: Tom Broad
18 02/13/08 7:49 PM | Comment Link |I love this … To say that Kay is clearly a hypocrite is very much an understatement (and yes, I too, now have this hideous visual of her in a slit skirt … AHHH!).
Myself being a PK, I grew up similar, but not exactly, to this extreme. This sort of story is very typical among this type of extreme-conservative following.
Kudos to the you, Beth and Traci, for putting up with this particular (unfortunate, really) view on things!
Comment by: Lisa
19 02/13/08 7:51 PM | Comment Link |Comment by: Angela
20 02/13/08 8:22 PM | Comment Link |Wow…you two have been busy. I had gotten behind but after an evening of reading to the point of my eyes being bloodshot, and laughing until my side hurts, I think I’m caught up! I probably shouldn’t have taken on so much at once. I don’t know whether to plan a party, sing a hymn, try to recall more literal scripture translations from my youth or make a quick trip out for sex toys!!! (Yes, as the O’ Great One, wise beyond his years, clearly pointed out this morning…Angela really does mean party!)
Regardless, thanks for the thought provoking posts and I’ll be better at keeping up from now on. Also, I gotta get you guys into some more liberal churches. God said so. :) And I’m betting, if I was brave enough to let him in on even the existance of this blog, the athiest under my roof would agree as well!
Comment by: Beth Bates
21 02/13/08 9:17 PM | Comment Link |What’s the fun of visiting liberal churches, Angela?! I actually have St. Luke’s on the list, and couple other Presbos.
Hey, I’m down with any party you plan, sister. Anytime. Anyplace!
Comment by: Lisa
22 02/13/08 9:37 PM | Comment Link |Funny, Tonight I just had a client tell me all about her sex toy party. She went into great detail, almost to the point of embarrassment for me (and I ain’t easily embarrassed).
My mind wandered and wondered what a sex toy party would be like with the ladies Beth and Traci encountered at College Park.
Comment by: Lisa
23 02/13/08 9:42 PM | Comment Link |So while my husband watched mythbusters tonight, I decided I wasn’t in the mood, but still enjoy spending time in the same room, so put in my headphones, and went to ABC.com to see what I’ve missed that everyone else is talking about. A few ppl told me they liked Eli Stone. Anyone else watch it?
It’s about an atheist lawyer who might actually be a prophet from God. He sees visions and hears George Michael sing about faith… You may just think it’s silly. Thought it was fun nevertheless, given the recent conversations. Any thoughts on the acupuncturists explanation of God in the pilot episode?
Comment by: Laura Anne
24 02/14/08 4:41 AM | Comment Link |Hee hee hee.
You’ve given me a good giggle. It sounds like a sketch from Monty Python, except that it was a bizarre reality…
Comment by: Brett
25 02/14/08 8:53 PM | Comment Link |This post is fabulous. On many levels. Hell, just for the writing alone. Let’s roll tape:
“Kay Arthur’s sweet thigh.” I don’t even know Kay Arthur, but I want to see her thigh.
“Men are visual.” Who, exactly, is just now figuring this out?
OK, and you know what’s sad? From the days of Bathsheba, we have learned so little. . . we still blame the women. Case in point: When Brad Pitt broke up with Jennifer Aniston and ran off with Angelina Jolie. Who filled up the tabloids? Why, Jennifer, of course. Who escaped culpability 100% Why, Brad Pitt, of course. Can someone splain that to me?
Oh, and Missy had a priceless line too: Do we have to hide our hotness just because we love God? I certainly hope not. And as for the whole dress modestly thing. . . I’ve pointed this out 1,000 times before, and I’m sure I’ll do it 1,000 times again. We’re supposedly created in God’s image, right? And we’re born NAKED. Any questions?
I have to go now. I’m all highly aroused, or something. . .
Comment by: Angela
26 02/15/08 4:57 AM | Comment Link |Which brings up an interesting point…I heard Rabbi Kushner, author of “When Bad Things Happen to Good People”, etc., speak once. (Don’t worry, Beth, it was a purely secular audience…I’m not going all Judaism on you, although I think Traci’s athiest husband has a secret thing for these people of God!) Anyway, you should have seen the faces in the audience when the talk went all sexual. He indicated he feels our sexuality is a gift from God to be celebrated and not something to be hidden or ashamed of. I’m pretty sure he was NOT advocating all out drunken orgies in the streets and, in fact, even devoted a large part of this topic to a discussion about importance of committed relationships. (Although some relationships lead to psychiatric committment, I don’t think that was what he meant!) He also pointed out that the ability to “mate for life” is a gift we share with really very few of our animal cousins and (get ready…here comes the good part) that even rarer still in the animal kingdom, is our ability to orgasm! Excuse me while I go lift up a little prayer of gratitude!
Comment by: Claudia
27 02/15/08 8:31 AM | Comment Link |Must…not…make joke…about shouting…God’s name…
Comment by: Missy Welsch
28 02/15/08 4:42 PM | Comment Link |Angela, your post about the Big O and the animal kingdom is news to me! And I thought our kitty looked so happy. Who knew?
Brett, glad the “hiding our hotness” line gotcha. It’s getting reaaaaallllly easy to disguise mine these days. Think Saturday Night Live and Molly Shannon in the “I’M FIF-TY!!” sketch.
Comment by: Beth Bates
29 02/17/08 8:21 PM | Comment Link |Okay, yeah. I think it might be time for a new post. You?
Comment by: Helen
30 02/18/08 7:30 AM | Comment Link |yes please!! Tell us what else you’ve been up to lately.
Comment by: Claudia
31 02/18/08 2:51 PM | Comment Link |I still wanna hear about this “better get right with God” thing, too!
Comment by: Peggy Sue
32 02/19/08 3:29 PM | Comment Link |Missy,
Does she still refer to her audience as “Beloved†when she teaches?
Funny you should mention that; Beth Moore refers to her audience by that name constantly. And incidentally, should probably reduce her Prozac intake.
Comment by: Women’s Ministry Thoughts since Traci and I stopped going to church « Beth’s Poltergeist Room
33 06/18/08 11:44 AM | Comment Link |[...] · No Comments Okay, I still go to church on Sundays. But Traci and I have ceased our “Beth and Traci Go to Church” women’s ministry visits. At least for now (probably forever but Who [...]
Comment by: Bookmarks about Bathsheba
34 10/3/08 7:45 PM | Comment Link |[...] - bookmarked by 4 members originally found by natetest1 on 2008-09-22 Comment on Beth and Traci: David, Bathsheba, and Kay Arthur’s… [...]