Beth and Traci: "As Real As the Chairs in This Room"
That’s a quote about God not Beth and me. The chairs in question were at Grace Community Church, where we sat in on a Soul Formation Workshop.
I could see the chairs; I was rigid in one. But nobody lays eyes or hands on Him as they do on stackable meeting-room chairs.
Believers of any stripe swallow broad statements that support their thinking like cool drinks of water. Or wine.
Nobody asked how God was, in fact, as real as the chairs we sat on, and when my husband asserts to me that Hillary’s tears were marketing gambit not legitimate emotion, I don’t argue. The New Hampshire ladies who caucused for her might.
In an earlier post, Beth asked me about my reaction to the language of our first event. To answer: It threw me, confused me, sometimes annoyed me.
When the speaker asked us whether we noticed the “fruit of the spirit” in the room, I had no clue what to look for.
Nobody stops to define myocardial infarction at a heart surgeons’ convention, and I can’t ding the workshop leader for using language familiar to 99% of her audience. Still, I did become conscious of a divine divide when I heard things like “in God’s hands” and when the symptoms of depression were identified as symptoms of soul neglect. (To her credit, the speaker did point out that depression is real and chemically based. But I worry about the line between needing to “spend time with God” and get a prescription or take some brisk walks.)
I wondered what it means for God to be “at work,” a phrase that brought back my childhood image of Him in a business suit, this time going over numbers with Al from accounting.
So much unfamiliar terminology in one evening was a wedge and a spotlight, keeping me “other” and showing me what a prejudiced bitch I am that soaking in the well-meaning directives for releasing my “God-given potential” made me feel combative.
But, really, isn’t making an industry of women’s dissatisfaction a little facile? Call it “soul health” or “self-help,” it’s a dandy way to draw dollars.
Comment by: Eliza
1 01/20/08 9:59 PM | Comment Link |How does the flow of dollars work in a workshop like this? Do you pay to attend or for materials for the workshop, or do they pass a plate for donations, or is it less direct, like trying to keep people active in their churches so they give money there?
Traci, I’ve been thinking for a while that someone should come up with a “Christian-to-Secular” dictionary, to help those of us who thought we understood the words C’s use, but clearly don’t attach the same meanings to them…
Comment by: karen
2 01/21/08 12:50 PM | Comment Link |What in the world is “soul formation”? I’ve never heard that term and I was an evangelical for 30 years. Maybe it’s one of the new terms that’s been coined since I left the fold. Still, was the premise explained so that an outsider might understand what “soul formation” refers to, or was it supposed to be easily understandable to all in attendance?
Wow, they were serving wine!? Things really have changed since I left. They’d never get away with that at BSF! ;-)
Apparently you didn’t notice the large fruit platter on the refreshments table. ;-)
Seriously, though, I think “Christianese” is one of the most pervasive and most alienating things that these groups do - completely without realizing they are doing it. And I don’t think you’re a bitch at all to be put off by it. Anytime people are talking in a way that we can’t understand, it makes us feel dumb - and that’s not a good feeling.
As you say, at a medical convention, the jargon would definitely confuse and alienate an outsider, but the presenters would not waste their time explaining the terminology because 99% of those attending have been to med school.
If these events are truly to be open and welcoming to outsiders, that insider language has to be closely examined and revised. I have a feeling that a lot of people would think that was a waste of time, however, unless they specifically made the group friendly for non-Christians.
I’m not understanding this. Was there a pitch for a course or counseling that costs money? I thought this was a free event, as most womens’ groups are (they typically took an offering when I attended, but they were underwritten by the church organization involved).
Comment by: Beth Bates
3 01/21/08 12:56 PM | Comment Link |Qualification: This event was geared toward leaders and a rare opportunity for a non-churchie to be a fly on the wall. The wonderful, gracious leaders (and women at our table) made Traci and me feel more than welcome.
Comment by: Traci
4 01/21/08 1:24 PM | Comment Link |So right, Karen. It was a free event. When I mentioned the dollars, I was referring to the speaker herself, who I’m guessing doesn’t head out to her almost weekly speaking engagements for nothin’. And I notice her Web site, soulcare.com, shows that she offers consulting services and refers to her organization as a “publishing and ministry vision.” Overly cynical of me to think that she’s looking to build an industry?
(Really. I’m asking.)
Comment by: Helen
5 01/21/08 3:06 PM | Comment Link |Traci, reading through your reactions, everything that bothered you would have bothered me too.
How did you feel about the ‘womens’ aspect of the meeting? Did you feel like their depiction of a woman who had met her full God-given potential matched what you think of as a woman at her best?
Beth, am I right that this was a meeting to train people already signed on as leaders of some sort of soul care class? So it wasn’t sales, it was training?
I agree it was nice of this group to let Traci come but on the other hand I would hope they wouldn’t feel they had anything to hide, or have any reason not to want her there.
Comment by: Beth Bates
6 01/21/08 3:13 PM | Comment Link |ELIZA - Oh my gosh, Eliza, I wish I would have thought of that! What a hilarious (and useful) dictionary that would be. Remember the “How to Talk Minnesotan” books?
Comment by: Traci
7 01/21/08 4:08 PM | Comment Link |HELEN: There was sharing and crying and I was completely uncomfortable with that, as I would be in any instance when I’m expected to bare my feelings to strangers (or listen to theirs).
One very cool aspect of the sharing portion was that the speaker instructed everyone not to give advice or co-opt someone’s story. I noticed how in the rush to fill silence it’s wicked tempting to start going on about, “when something similar happened to me, I blah, blah, blah . . .”
I was talking to Beth today about how I’ve noticed that a theme in the groups we’ve gone to is that women are overburdened and put-upon, spread thin — usually in reference to mothers — and I know that’s a common state but wonder whether the focus on it is off-putting to non-mothers, single women, career ladies. Or, for that matter, women who have no problem finding balance even if they are mothers.
The states of being identified as part of “soul health” included content, accepting, grateful, balanced, peaceful, free. All those I understand and certainly would identify as desirable. But then selfless and dependent were on the list, too. I might argue those a little. (Although I think dependent might be another churchie-speak code word.)
And of course soul health also meant having a relationship with God, which — no.
ELIZA: Genius.
Comment by: karen
8 01/21/08 4:16 PM | Comment Link |Okay, if it was geared toward leaders, I can see why they didn’t “translate” the phrasing they used, which probably would be quite clear to the Christians attending, assuming that there aren’t Catholics or other non-evangelicals there.
I don’t know her, but given my experience in these groups, I would imagine that she considers her training to be both a ministry and a marketing opportunity. So, she’s sincerely interested in helping the women who are having trouble forming their souls (still don’t get that) but she’s also giving a plug for her business at the same time, which is perfectly legit as far as I’m concerned.
If by “soul formation” she’s putting a fancy spiritual name on what amounts to counseling for depression, that could be truly helpful. On the other hand, if she’s trying to plant the seeds of a new problem that needs to be solved (incomplete soul syndrome or something similar) by which she and her counseling center could profit, yeah, that’d be rather a cynical proposition.
Comment by: karen
9 01/21/08 4:25 PM | Comment Link |Soul formation sounds pretty elemental then. Thanks for the definition.
All Christians are supposed to be dependent on god and grateful to him for their lives and their very beings, so I understand why that is on the list, though I don’t agree with it.
“Selfless” is a big problem for me, because I found that I - and most other Christian women - were made to feel extremely guilty for even considering our own personal needs (let alone indulging them). I denied myself practically out of existence for several years when my children were small, and it was a miserable way to live, believe me. It certainly didn’t lead to a balanced or peaceful life.
Comment by: Beth Bates
10 01/21/08 5:41 PM | Comment Link |HELEN
The women’s ministry at GCC offers its leaders of all the women’s groups Leadership Enrichment Opportunities (LEO) throughout the year. I believe their intent with these LEOs is to impart useful information related to the dynamics of facilitating group discussion; show appreciation to the leaders for giving their time to volunteer (with meals and motivational talks); and provide the opportunity for community with other leaders. The soulcare workshop was a LEO that kicked off the new semester. It was more enrichment, even, than training. Not sales, no.
Comment by: Helen
11 01/21/08 6:46 PM | Comment Link |Beth - so it wasn’t training to teach a specific course; it was ‘general’ leader training/enrichment?
Are you a leader of a women’s group at GCC or were you a guest at this meeting like Traci?
Comment by: pam sardar
12 01/21/08 6:57 PM | Comment Link |I love GCC, can’t wait to meet you Friday night, and I am a fairly outspoken follower of Jesus, have had some issues with churchie traditions, lead with my husband a very non traditional movement in India, and have some trouble with marketing soul care on a website. Probably my own bias. Would you define soul to be synonymous with spirit? Just curious.
Comment by: Helen
13 01/21/08 7:08 PM | Comment Link |Traci, wow, I am impressed this group was willing to share and cry together - it sounds like they trust each other, which is neat.
I suppose that could be a reason not to have guests come - if it meant the people the workshop is aimed at would feel less comfortable sharing.
I think you raise a good point re: the overburdened mother - what about women who don’t fit that profile? Sometimes I feel like Christians presuppose you’re having certain problems then tell you their solution. But what if you don’t have those problems?
Dependent is one of those words that’s good in church circles and not good outside them. Have you run into how ‘tolerance’ is a bad word in some church circles? That’s another word whose connotation is opposite inside and outside some Christian groups.
Like Karen said, selfless can be problematic when women are told to be selfless in an unbalanced way that ignores their own needs.
This reminds me how glad I am that I’m no longer in meetings where I’m told what women ’should’ be like.
Comment by: Lisa
14 01/21/08 8:18 PM | Comment Link |Helen wrote, “I think you raise a good point re: the overburdened mother - what about women who don’t fit that profile? Sometimes I feel like Christians presuppose you’re having certain problems then tell you their solution. But what if you don’t have those problems?”
Sorry if the following appears confrontational, but I don’t know how to ask the question any differently…
Why would you go to a group titled “SOUL HEALTH” if you weren’t “sick”?
I don’t find myself randomly entering hospitals.
I suppose I might go if I’m looking to improve my already good health, but I’m assuming after the 1st visit I’d recognize that I needed a different forum. I’m guessing the ppl organizing this forum are trying to meet a need and assumes that the ppl coming are looking to have that need met.
Regarding the Christianeze–frankly, it’s annoying to me too, but to be fair, every group has their own language, and if I want to be part of a group, I’m usually inclined to learn their language, whatever it might be.
“Teen speak” is just as annoying, along with Ebonics, etc.
I tend to play devil’s advocate, but thought I’d take up for the saint’s side today.
What Traci and Beth are doing is interesting and I appreciate all the conversation. Everyone has to realize though the perspectives of the average person at these women’s group… if you’re coming to my party, I’m assuming you want to play with me, not coming to analyze me.
Comment by: Claudia
15 01/21/08 9:16 PM | Comment Link |So if I’m reading this right, the attendees aren’t charged, but the church pays the presenter. I’m not saying it’s not a worthwhile, well-intentioned non-profit, but Soul Care’s a registered trademark, which means somebody’s getting paid.
Traci, it doesn’t make you prejudiced to bring your usual level of critical analysis to any jargon set, especially one steeped in metaphor. Jargon unites communities and makes for rich and effective communication, but it also obfuscates and allows for lazy thinking. I guarantee they’re still scrapping over the finer points of the Linnean system after all these years. Trust your training. Words mean things! The falling leaves DO NOT represent falling tears!
Comment by: Traci
16 01/22/08 7:05 AM | Comment Link |LISA: Is being an overburdened mother the only way to feel soul neglect?
I recognize that every group has its own language and said so in the post. We’re on the same page there.
Comment by: Helen
17 01/22/08 7:08 AM | Comment Link |Lisa wrote:
Lisa, Beth described this as ‘enrichment’. To me that doesn’t sound like a hospital but rather a self-improvement (God-improvement I suppose) class.
I haven’t run into other groups which claim to want new members as much as Christian, whose language tends to be so inaccessible to outsiders. It’s the Christian desire to increase their numbers which makes me wonder why they don’t speak the language of the people they’ve inviting in. I wonder why Christians seem to have their own language more than Jesus did according to his words in the Bible (assuming the Bible is a fairly accurate record).
Definitely and so do I.
I understand and respect that, but realistically Traci is going to have feelings and reactions about what she hears unless she figured out a way to leave her brain at home. I don’t see anything wrong with having them or sharing them.
Comment by: Beth Bates
18 01/22/08 7:27 AM | Comment Link |I hear what you’re saying, Lisa. And thanks for participating.
And I understand where you’re coming from too, Traci.
Isn’t this fun?! So much color and texture on one little blog!
Comment by: Lisa
19 01/22/08 10:25 AM | Comment Link |Traci wrote, “LISA: Is being an overburdened mother the only way to feel soul neglect?”
Of course not.
but you wrote “usually in reference to mothers”
I’m put off all the time by things that are in reference to mothers, since that’s not a club I’m part of. Just trying to look at things from their perspective.
Traci and Helen, you both have valid points. Please forgive my regurgitation from my gut reaction.
If this was a group of enrichment for leaders, than it isn’t necessary for the language to be inclusionary. If this was an out reach ministry, then by all means, the group needs to adapt to the culture they’re reaching out to.
I wasn’t there, so I’m only getting a glimmer of what you experienced.
I completely understand Traci’s discomfort and don’t blame her for it and think she has every right to feel what she’s feeling. I felt just as awkward at a gay dance club, and a mud hut in a maasai village, but both were great experiences to learn new things, and perhaps re shape my thinking. I don’t think an enrichment for leaders can be classified the same as an outreach group. We all like to feel comfy and safe and warm, so we’ll run back to the place that makes us feel that way. The language for the enrichment for the leaders and the bonding of the put upon mothers must be a way they all feel comfy.
Comment by: Lisa
20 01/22/08 10:33 AM | Comment Link |PS
“Jargon unites communities and makes for rich and effective communication, but it also obfuscates and allows for lazy thinking.”
Claudia, I agree.
Comment by: Helen
21 01/22/08 10:36 AM | Comment Link |Lisa, you’re forgiven :).
I understand what you’re saying - it’s not surprising that this group uses their language since they have one. What I wonder at is why Christians in general haven’t been more careful to avoid developing and using their own language, given how confusing it is to the very people (outsiders) they claim they want to connect with.
Comment by: karen
22 01/22/08 11:10 AM | Comment Link |The pastor at the last church I attended was aware of this tendency of churchy language to put off visitors and tried to overcome it. For instance, the “narthex” officially became the “lobby.” The “sanctuary” became the “worship center” and so on.
It was a good effort, but overall it was a bit like putting a bandage on the situation that was quite a bit worse than just place names, as Traci found. (I remember Eliza having similar word confusion when she delved into the Lutheran experience!)
My hubby and I always felt this at Christian couples’ workshops. The traditional male/female roles and problems laid out by the leaders never applied to us in the least, but there were such strong assumptions made about marriage dynamics that no one seemed to question that they didn’t fit every marriage.
Comment by: Lisa
23 01/22/08 1:00 PM | Comment Link |I’ve not been to church or a church group for a few years, but have dealings with Christians regularly, and just haven’t noticed the jargon in a normal conversation. Maybe I’m familiar enough with the language that I gloss over it. I’m just wondering if the general consensus is that Christians use their own special words in every day conversation with the rest of the world, or just when a group of them are together, and the assumption is made that they will be understood.
Comment by: Missy Welsch
24 01/22/08 5:27 PM | Comment Link |“In an earlier post, Beth asked me about my reaction to the language of our first event. To answer: It threw me, confused me, sometimes annoyed me.”
Traci, your response brought back what I felt when I lived in Canada as a nine year old…straight from Tulsa, Oklahoma. I don’t think my mom had the time to let me know that we were, in fact, living in a different country. I was a new student in the middle of the school year (no problem, it was a way of life, new schools, new homes)but no one had bothered to tell me that Toronto was actually NOT in the USA. Thus, the “Pledge to the Queen” and the singing of “God Save the Queen” were pretty disconcerting. Also, I was a really good speller and here the teacher was marking “color” wrong on my spelling test. “It’s C-O-L-O-U-R”. (my ass!) So, I learned to just blend in. Sitting down on the outside but standing up on the inside.
What I’m saying here is that it is completely normal for the language and customs to be radically different for you…you were in a different country. The “soul work” that was discussed is common in all kinds of groups (AA, poetry groups, self-help of any kind) because there is a hunger each of us has to examine our lives and to become better people. God or no God, this is an important part of growth, period. I will say that I avoid groups that are too much into navel gazing, groups of any kind. I want to glance, not gaze, so as to not make myself the focus.
Comment by: Beth Bates
25 01/22/08 5:37 PM | Comment Link |Wow, Missy, you sure did survive a bunch of wacky doo-doo back then I knew nothing about. While you were at school spelling C-O-L-O-U-R wrong I was gazing through the play-pen bars, longing for my big sister momma to come home and play with me. I’m proud of you! (Isn’t my sister wonderful?!) ;0)
Comment by: Missy Welsch
26 01/22/08 5:54 PM | Comment Link |You silly girl.
Comment by: Traci
27 01/22/08 6:09 PM | Comment Link |Word up, Missy. I’m on another continent. Friendly natives, colourful culture.
Comment by: Missy Welsch
28 01/22/08 6:24 PM | Comment Link |I just love her so much!!! (think “Raising Arizona)
Comment by: Beth Bates
29 01/22/08 6:34 PM | Comment Link |Colourful twists, allusions to Coen Brothers films . . . I’m in heaven. You two are too swell.
Comment by: Helen
30 01/22/08 6:47 PM | Comment Link |I might write ‘color’ to appease Americans but on the inside I know that ‘colour’ is the One True Correct spelling.
Comment by: Beth Bates
31 01/22/08 6:59 PM | Comment Link |You freaky ladies are ON FIRE!
Comment by: Missy Welsch
32 01/23/08 4:42 PM | Comment Link |Is it humor or humour?
Discuss.
One True Correct spelling…that’s beautiful.
Comment by: Brett
33 01/23/08 8:09 PM | Comment Link |Overly cynical? No. Forgive me if this has been covered in previous entries, but … one of my biggest qualms with pretty much every organized religion I’ve encountered is this subtle discouragement of critical thinking. So that’s the only advice I’m going to offer to you: Critical thinking (not necessarily cynicism, although the two can be close neighbors) is good. Keep it close at hand. Always (that applies as much to the grocery store as it does to the church, in my book anyway).
Comment by: Jeri
34 01/24/08 5:38 AM | Comment Link |It sounds like you are having great fun! I’d encourage you to ask questions when you don’t understand. I know the Christian circles I’ve been in love to help out the newbe. I’ve been the newbe and now love to share my limited knowledge with others.
The fruits of the spirit are what is produced in us as we follow Christ. Obtaining all of them at the same time is basically impossible. The fruits are listed beginning with Galatians 5:22. But, before we get to that we need to read what our sinful nature produces, it starts at 5:19.
Here is, from the NIV (one of the many different translations of the Bible):
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
Comment by: Laurie
35 01/24/08 9:25 PM | Comment Link |Hearing from folks about “specialized language” … I’m feeling it from both sides… My husband is in medical research, and when I was young and in love I followed him to his conferences… OK .. you can not walk ten feet without someone wanting to engage your husband in MEDICAL speak!!! Totally offputting.. and I don’t go anymore. If I am going to relax with him, I’m going somewhere where we will not find any medical-geeks!
On the other hand, my husband absolutely is “in heaven” (gasp-blasphemy) when he is talking science. He has been a question-asker since he was a child. So, these events for those who are in scientific research are a boost to his soul. Yes, I am saying soul… He is a Christ-follower - to use the most in-vogue term… but he would tell you that God has wired him to be a scientist.
On the other hand… if you put him in a conference that catered to the general public … you might as well put a gun to his head… he would be beyond bored… When he is in his chosen environment, the other inhabitants have a lexicon, a shorthand, a history, a journal, a chronology, that most people assent to. They put those things behind.. and relax into science-speak…
I did attend the GCC women’s event. And, I did pick up that it was intended for people with a certain level of understanding. Not that anyone was barred… just that there was an understanding that the conversation would start at a certain point. (And, I use point because I do not want to imply location - up/down/sideways/slanted/etc).
On another note… as someone who sometimes speaks to groups… it’s so tough…. what is my audience??? How many people will I lose if I assume that they know a certain tenet? How many people will I bore if I elucidate something that is considered elementary? I am constantly checking and re-checking my audience… who is engaged.. who looks distracted… how do I adjust? Then I just stop and tell stories. That is something that seems to cut across personal “levels.”
Comment by: Beth Bates
36 01/25/08 3:47 AM | Comment Link |Hi, Laurie. Thanks for your post.
We were, in fact, at the disruptive kids session, and I kept feeling a pull to offer to babysit. I thought, “Man, if she had to bring her kids tonight then chances are she needs this workshop more than anyone else in the room.”
Thank you for the prayers for tonight. It feels strange being highlighted about something as everyday as a friendship. It’s like if we put Dave up there and interviewed him about what it’s like being married to a woman with naturally curly hair who plays the piano. You know? I mean. I’m honored to do it. I just hope it’s compelling enough for the people who make time to be there! I’m looking forward to it, though. See you tonight. :)
Comment by: Helen
37 01/25/08 5:11 AM | Comment Link |Beth, it’s not an everyday thing for a Christian to have a very good friendship with an atheist.
I think there will be lots of people there tonight who don’t have a friendship like that.
Comment by: Beth Bates
38 01/25/08 5:57 AM | Comment Link |That blows my mind, Helen. Seriously. What gives?
Comment by: Helen
39 01/25/08 6:13 AM | Comment Link |Well…sometimes it’s fear; some Christians are afraid an atheist might pull them away from their faith; so while they want to share their faith with people who are atheists they don’t want to get too close. There’s that strong warning in the Bible “Don’t be yoked with an unbeliever” after all. The closer friends you are with someone, the more likely it is that you will find yourself ‘yoked’ i.e. influenced in a certain direction by them. Not necessarily because they are pulling you but just because that’s how it is with close friends. You pay attention to what matters to them. You take them seriously and listen to them. What if one day their reasons for being an atheist and objections to your beliefs start to make sense to you…yikes…now you’re in trouble… :-)
It’s also habit/lifestyle - many Christians tend to socialize with other Christians and so they don’t make/maintain close friendships with people who aren’t Christians.
Also, atheists are in the minority - especially if you only count atheists who are happy to tell people they are atheists (some would rather not because of the possible repercussions).
I’m guessing that you don’t have another atheist friend who is as close a friend as Traci and I’m guessing she doesn’t have another Christian friend she’s as close to as you. Or at least, neither of you have several other friends like that. If I’m right that’s another indication this is not ‘everyday’.
Comment by: Helen
40 01/25/08 6:30 AM | Comment Link |…I should add, I think people will really enjoy hearing from both of you because, as shown here, you’re both smart, thoughtful, fun, witty, engaging…who wouldn’t enjoy hearing you?
Comment by: Lisa
41 01/25/08 6:32 AM | Comment Link |Isn’t it just the “NORM” to have an “us against them” mentality, no matter who “them” is. That’s what I love about this site, that there seem to be people wanting to understand the other side. I’m told too often that I over think and ask too many questions. It’s so refreshing to me to see a group willing to explore opposite perspectives.
Comment by: Beth Bates
42 01/25/08 6:42 AM | Comment Link |Aw shucks, Helen. :) Seriously, Traci and I can write fluently, but when it comes to speaking? Well. . . Wish us luck is all I have to say.
And Lisa? I have never known a bigger devil’s advocate. Well, not till Helen. ;0) You just keep askin’ away, dear friend.
Comment by: Helen
43 01/25/08 7:49 AM | Comment Link |Lisa, thanks for noticing. We’re doing our best to get beyond ‘us vs. them’ in our blog conversations. Who tells you you ask too many questions and overthink? That sounds patronising to me. How else is a person to learn?
Comment by: Lisa
44 01/25/08 9:14 AM | Comment Link |Helen you asked,”Who tells you you ask too many questions and overthink? That sounds patronising to me.”
Just the general population. No, I’m just kidding.
I don’t think the people who have said that to me are intentionally being patronizing. I think they’re just worn out by the questions if they haven’t thought through it themselves. I like putting everything under a microscope and I really don’t think the average person enjoys that. It’s much easier to just follow someone who claims to have the answers. I guess that’s how Hitler became so powerful.
Comment by: Traci
45 01/25/08 11:35 AM | Comment Link |HELEN: Here in America, that’s patroniZing.
Comment by: Helen
46 01/25/08 11:50 AM | Comment Link |Oops. I thought I was bilingual in spelling (albeit reluctantly) but I guess I’m not yet, even after 20 years of living here!
Comment by: Helen
47 01/25/08 11:53 AM | Comment Link |Lisa, I’m a question asker myself - I think it’s dangerous to rely on people with power, or supposedly with a lot of knowledge, for answers. What if they are wrong?