Beth and Traci and the Morning After
A quick debrief on the heels of a spiritual formation workshop (soulcare) and — a mere 13 hours later — BSF
Traci was greeted with a hug at her first women’s ministry event.
Beth’s stress zit is beginning to vanish.
Traci opted out of dinner before the workshop.
Beth joined Traci for post-workshop beer and debriefing chez Cumbay where Dr. Cumbay stunned her by saying, “Traci is the least spiritual person I’ve ever met.”
Traci earned bonus points in our “I’ve never said that” game when she said, “I need to go shower - I have Bible study this morning” before BSF.
Beth exhibited a tiny bit of Christ-like (righteous) road rage on the way to BSF.
Beth anticipated a hug from the syrup-smiled greeter who rushed her at the door but got spanked instead for trying to carry Starbucks into the sanctuary.
Traci remains awed by the reaction to Beth’s introducing her as an atheist.
Comment by: Helen
1 01/10/08 7:43 AM | Comment Link |Thanks for the update!
Traci, I’m impressed you were willing to go to TWO meetings in your first 24 hours of churchification.
Beth as a 7 year BSF goer I have to defend BSF a little bit about the coffee - BSF ‘borrows’ churches to meet in and they are very careful about not leaving a mess behind. It’s a little different saying “We’ve promised to look after this space that’s being lent to us” from “Don’t you dare bring that into MY church”.
See what BSF does to a person…I can’t help defending them, even now…scary, huh? :)
Comment by: Claudia
2 01/10/08 8:23 AM | Comment Link |What’s “BSF” stand for?
Comment by: Traci
3 01/10/08 8:48 AM | Comment Link |Claudia, I asked the same question.
It’s Bible Study Fellowship International, and from what I learned yesterday, it’s the Starbucks of bible study. (My plan is to use nothing but coffee analogies now and for all time.)
Anywho, it’s highly regimented bible study. Yesterday the talk was about Matthew 12, in Indianapolis and Asmara and right there in Culver City.
Who knew?
Comment by: Helen
4 01/10/08 10:04 AM | Comment Link |I’d love to hear how BSF is like Starbucks.
My ex-pastor would concur about ‘highly regimented’. He used to call it the ‘paramilitary’ of Bible studies.
Yes, every BSF class all over the world is studying the same passage, every week. In English. Very helpful if you’re on vacation and don’t want to miss class :). (But presumably a bit awkward for everyone who doesn’t speak English as their first language?)
I just added a link to BSF’s site to Beth and Traci’s post - also to the soulcare workshop. For those who are curious.
Comment by: Traci
5 01/10/08 10:12 AM | Comment Link |Substitute “Matthew Lesson 15″ for “grande mocha,” and you’ve got it — no matter where you are.
Whipped cream optional. (But don’t bring it in the sanctuary, BETH.)
Comment by: Beth
6 01/10/08 10:27 AM | Comment Link |To be fair to the saccarin lady in the purple suit, she apologized in about four different ways. It just felt jarring to see someone eagerly approach us as we entered, assume her first words would make my unchurched friend feel welcome and instead be admonished. I don’t like to be admonished. And boy did I need caffeine at that moment. But I understand church policy and graciously chugged my soy latte at the door while Traci found a seat. I could hear about Satan’s rule as prince of this world just as well from the lobby.
But a simple, “Hi! Welcome to GUEST day here at BSF” might have softened “You can’t bring that in here.” I’m glad Traci wasn’t the one with the cup.
And it was a first impression for the down and dirty debrief. We’ll go into more detail in coming posts.
I was thinking Starbucks may be too welcoming, laid back and ubiquitous in this analogy. Maybe the Masons would be apter?
Comment by: karen
7 01/10/08 10:59 AM | Comment Link |I attended BSF for five or six years when my kids were young (i.e., about 15 years ago).
Rules and admonishment were pretty much par for the course. That was emphasized at BSF much more than in any other Christian women’s group I attended. Though a lot of them were big on rules, now that I think about it!
Comment by: Beth
8 01/10/08 11:04 AM | Comment Link |God love ‘em.
Comment by: Siamang
9 01/10/08 7:52 PM | Comment Link |More more more… write more!!!!!
(Loving the series.)
Comment by: Kristin
10 01/11/08 8:03 AM | Comment Link |Care to tell us what you heard through the message at BSF? Or would that be taking this off-track from your main purpose? I’m just very curious to hear Beth’s and Traci’s understandings of what was said, and any brief commentary on it as well.
Comment by: Jill
11 01/11/08 8:20 AM | Comment Link |I loved talking to Beth and Traci at BSF. I was at first taken aback when Beth introduced Traci as an unbeliever. I thought that it was great to have her there, and the project sounds interesting. I first started BSF to “meet new friends” when I was first out of college and working. God had different ideas, but I did not know that until I slowly started doing the lessons and reading the Bible. We were actually studying Genesis that year and I had no idea that anything in the book of Genesis could apply to ME! The rules were a bit weird, but I did not know any better then, and now I appreciate the structure and accountability because it leads to not wasting my time. When I learned of the international scope of BSF and their desire to maintain consistency, the rules made more sense. I hope that you guys got a lesson copy so that you can see the layout. I really can’t think of a better place for a person to learn about the Bible without any denominational “extras”.
Comment by: Beth
12 01/11/08 10:16 AM | Comment Link |Thank you, Jill, for welcoming us so warmly and unabashedly to BSF. We plan to write a more in-depth report of our first two stops on our tour, so stay tuned. We did get a lesson copy, thanks for asking.
Helen - Yes, my husband does join me for church, most of the time. I’m still not quite sure why, but I love feeling his arm around me during the service.
Helen and Kristin - labels, schmabels! I don’t want to come off as defensive, but I need to state for the record that I generally don’t think or speak in those terms. For the purposes of this project, labels might come up. For me it’s a given to look at the person as a whole. My counseling training molded me to view things and people holistically (there’s another loaded word for ya!), so I don’t tend to see things in black and white. I used to view my gray vision as a liability, but it comes in handy for a counselor and a writer.
Comment by: Kristin
13 01/11/08 10:30 AM | Comment Link |So glad to hear it, Beth! If only the open-minded and unassuming approach were so common…. :)
Comment by: Helen
14 01/11/08 12:49 PM | Comment Link |Jill, thanks for dropping by to post a comment here. The structure of BSF worked for me too for a number of years. After being in small group Bible studies which tended to get off-track all the time I liked how BSF stayed on track and never ran late.
I really liked doing Genesis - I think it was my second year in BSF.
If you haven’t read the autobiography of the founder Wetherall Johnson I recommend that (see if your teaching leader has a copy you can borrow) - it gives interesting perspective on where the rules, or rather ‘guidelines’ :), came from. Many of them have been in place since Ms Johnson first got a few of her friends together and started a Bible study with them.
Beth don’t worry - I already figured out you aren’t one of those black-and-white types :). And when you say you’re working on your coffee-in-church issues I believe you!
Comment by: Claudia
15 01/11/08 2:13 PM | Comment Link |I checked out the BSF Web site (thanks, Helen!) and it raised a question for me about the whole exercise Traci and Beth are documenting here–Jill, you mentioned that the BSF is free of “denominational ‘extras’”, but the statement of faith specifically uses the phrase “born again.”
It’s highly likely that I don’t really understand what the phrase means in this context, but it made me wonder–is the set of women’s ministries you two are exploring all identified as “born again”?
Comment by: Beth
16 01/11/08 7:50 PM | Comment Link |Great question, Claudia. The answer is “no.”
Comment by: Cathy
17 01/12/08 3:47 AM | Comment Link |Kudos Beth! This is really interesting. So much so that I had to check and see if there were any BSF classes in Belgium on the off chance that I might actually get up the gumption to “participate” in your experience and start attending. Unfortunately, there are none listed in Belgium or the Netherlands. BUMMER! I will definitely follow along though!
Comment by: Missy Welsch
18 01/12/08 8:01 AM | Comment Link |I like what our mother calls the starbucks moment and any like it which feel like a scolding:
Arrested by the BSF Police.
My experience is that each BSF kind of takes on the personality of its leader.
Comment by: Kristin DeMint
19 01/12/08 10:45 AM | Comment Link |Beth: My understanding is that Christianity entails being born again, regardless of denomination — can you quickly clarify the core common beliefs of the set of women’s ministries you’re exploring, since you said they don’t include “born again”? I’m a bit confused.
Comment by: Beth
20 01/12/08 11:50 AM | Comment Link |Well, Kristin, while I attended seminary I’m not a Bible scholar. I never took Greek, but I welcome any lurkers who are scholarly lurkers to chime in.
“Born again” comes from the gospel of John, chapter 3, Nicodemus, when a Pharisee (one of the grand poobas of Jewish law in Jesus’s day) visits him by cover and affirms that Jesus must be “a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him,” Nicodemus said. And Jesus tells this man that no one can “see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” (italics mine) He doesn’t say a person has to be born again to be “a Christian.” And seeing the kingdom of God - does that mean a person is a Christian? It asks the broader question regarding the nature of “the kingdom of God” which would require another blog altogether. Anyone out there care to add to my insufficient reply?
Plenty of churchs use the term “born again” - even Catholics, since the words came from Jesus. My understanding of Claudia’s question was whether we were going to be limiting our quest to churches who utilize that term in an excusionary sense, the ones that tend to be the more fundamentalist or conservative denominations. We had planned to visit a range. But. We’re considering a different direction altogether. . .
Such range within the religion!
Comment by: Helen
21 01/12/08 1:49 PM | Comment Link |Kristin, in my experience Christian groups can be so diverse they don’t have much in common beyond calling themselves ‘Christian’ and saying that Jesus is in some way ’special’ to them.
It makes sense that Beth would take Traci to a range of groups since from Traci’s point of view, why exclude some groups that think of themselves as ‘Christian’? Who is to say who the ‘real’ Christians are? Each group thinks it’s them; that’s about all I know :)
I guess we’ll just have to keep reading and find out what Beth and Traci are up to, in view of Beth’s latest comment that they might be considering a different direction altogether. (Beth, way to go leaving us with a cliffhanger!)
Comment by: Beth
22 01/12/08 5:28 PM | Comment Link |Yeah. What Helen said.
Comment by: Friendly Christian » Archive » Beth And Traci Go To Church
23 01/14/08 3:59 AM | Comment Link |[...] give you a taste, this is what they posted after the first two visits (they’ll be writing about them in more detail soon - this was just a quick update): A quick [...]
Comment by: Kristin
24 01/14/08 8:10 AM | Comment Link |Got it — thanks! It was an honest question, I assure you — I’ve just never been to or heard of a Christian church that didn’t think of Jesus as the Savior, that being born again is necessary for salvation, which is the whole gist of Christianity throughout history (right?( (and which has so many different interpretations, of course, but has a common thread: admitting sin, believing that Christ died and was resurrected to save humanity from the consequences of sin, and confessing belief in him as the Savior while asking for forgiveness). So I just wanted to make sure I truly understood your note to Claudia. Please know that I’m not out here to judge in any way — I just wanted to make sure we were being as clear as possible and not misleading — there’s a difficult gap to bridge between people who understand “Christian-speak” and people who don’t, as you know, and (Beth) I wasn’t sure what you really meant to say. Thanks so much for your kind responses.
Comment by: Claudia
25 01/14/08 8:36 AM | Comment Link |Thanks, Beth–that’s exactly what I was trying to ask. I’d understood that denominations/sects that identify as “born-again” hold that being born again is a necessary requirement for salvation. Orthodox Christian sects, Catholics, and Anglicans–I’m sure there are more–don’t include that requirement as a part of their theologies.
The only time I think Catholics use the phrase is when that particular reading comes up at Mass–you gotta jump through a lot of hoops as a Catholic, but not that particular one :).
Can’t wait to hear what this exciting new direction for the project might be!
Comment by: Beth Bates
26 01/14/08 1:27 PM | Comment Link |Thanks for confirming my interpretation, Claudia.
Back in the nineties I read a book written by a friend’s reformed fundamentalist brother-in-law. It was called “Born Fundamentalist: Born Again Catholic.” (See how he did that? Nice and twisty, eh?) And if I remember correctly the details of a book I read 20 years ago, Chuck Colson, in his book “Born Again” attributed the title to lyrics in a hymn he sang at a Catholic Mass, ironically enough. It made him think of a butterfly, and how he felt like a worm who had been transformed into a more beautiful creature after dark time in a cocoon.
Comment by: Claudia
27 01/14/08 9:05 PM | Comment Link |Beth, my reading list gets longer just about every time you post–thank you for that!
Inspired by the high level of discourse and courtesy from all in these comments, I sign off now without making an Opus Dei joke…
Comment by: Helen
28 01/15/08 6:32 AM | Comment Link |Kristin, as best I know, what you wrote is a good summary of what some Christians believe (including the BSF leadership). And they would say “Yes, this IS Christianity and this is what it has always been.”
But there are also many people who call themselves Christian who disagree with some or all of it, who would define Christianity differently. Or who don’t want to define it at all in terms of ‘belief’. For example, I heard Tony Jones, leader of Emergent Village, a Christian organization, say he thought Christian institutions should do away with statements of faith altogether. (At least that’s what he said as best I recall). And then there’s retired Episcopal bishop Spong who wrote ‘A new Christianity for a new world’. Many people view him as an atheist ‘in disguise’. He rejects the idea that God is a personal being - he sees that as a very outdated idea.
So the spectrum of what all Christians believe is very broad. And the two people I mentioned each have significant followings. They are not people that no-one listens to.
Comment by: Amy
29 01/15/08 8:41 PM | Comment Link |Beth I LOVE YOU! You are amazing and I’m so proud to know you! I LOVE YOU!!!
Amy